Breeding - Advice
 

Myself and a few mates have recently retired our bitch from racing, she raced as 'Bing Blitzem' winning 5 races in Victoria and Perth with a truckload of second placings from 30 odd starts. She ran a slick 19.80 at Geelong, won at Mandurah and Bendigo and ran some very good races at Ballarat.

She had dynamite early speed but like many Brett Lee bitchs couldnt extend that brilliance over longer trips. She was also the not trained overly well and developed many a bad habit that cost her many races namely running wide on the turn every start. She was certaintly not a punters dog and i hope she hasnt burnt any of you out there on occasions.

She is a very well bred bitch being out of Dash Burgendy - Brett Lee, a half sister to Group One winner Que Sera Sera, Grouping winning Miss Tayliana and a full sister to the highly talented but erratic Let It Snow. So we are hoping for some success at stud.

Hence retiring her prematurely and im wondering if any one had any advice on whom we should send her to stud wise?

Paddys Flame has been mentioned as a potential sire, as we can get him cheap through a mate.

Hey, just had a quick look but i think you could do a lot worse than Black Enforcer he has been throwing some great litters lately and is worth a try.

Greyhound Testmating

Dazzler, as I have acknowledged, I really don't know the "magic" answer to this breeding business, in fact, I don't think there is one, that is a "magic" answer. However, Paddy's Flame, why not and certainly not because you can get him cheap, this would be a very minor reason from my perspective. It would be very interesting, you get the imported influence through Larkhill Jo and have a look at the brood bitches on what is, I think, the 4th generation, absolute cracking bitches, e.g. Gravel Rash, Leprechaun Miss, Wee Sal, Miss Dusty Lee, Floodgate and Tranquil Flame. I don't know anything about Larkhill Jo's damline but I would be extremely surprised if it is not excellent. Noel Keane from Island would be able to advise you. By the way there is of course some inbreeding to Gun Law Osti in close up generations. Maybe others have some views on this. I reiterate that I most certainly can't provide you with authoritative advice but I do ask the question why would Paddy's Flame not provide you with as good a chance of getting some handy pups as any other stud dog.

Yeah cheers mate, makes sense to me but was just wondering if there were any real qualms with Paddys Flames credentials.

Dazzler I did draft a significant response including an apology to Noel Keane for inadvertently typing "Ireland" as "Island" in my previous posting. Sorry Noel. In essence, you (Dazzler) and even more likely your mate, know more about Paddy than me but on the basis of my limited knowledge, he was a hell of a good dog winning 23 from 38 starts with 10 placings, he turned 3 yo only yesterday so his career was significanlty cut short, he won a couple of group races, won 8 of his last 10 starts, beat some good dogs like El Galo, seems to have been more of big track dog than Sandown or Meadows type track but he did win in town including the Maturity Final, ran a track record at Sale I think and maybe 500 ms was about as far as he liked to go. IF (repeat IF) he was not overly strong at the end of 500 then maybe this might not be a positive factor but neither is El Galo enormously strong at the end of 500. Peter Giles was the trainer, he is the trainer also of Salegreys Iscool so maybe Neverpromise and/or Diesel can provide some in-house knowledge of Paddy's Flame. I've got a feeling that he was a fair lump of a dog so you can decide whether that is a positive, negative or it doesn't really matter.

That reminds me of the time when Paddy, Sean and Noel were at the pub havin a black beer when this Aussie bloke sat down beside them and said.......Na better leave this one alone me thinks.

coops

first off this is off hand as there is no really race career on data from her or siblings(if there is an aussie one let me know that would be great)

as for breeding her

first off wipe out half sisters no barring on her

her dam did throw some classy sorts but if you go back threw it each bitch back along only threw a few good ones or were breed very little

while not a fan of brett lee myself i know some of his bitches have and are breeding on

i dont know anything much about the sire mentioned so wont comment on him again if there is a web site where i ca see race carrers let me know

noel

Noel, you can look up the race careers of all Australian greyhounds on GRV (go to E-Form and put in the name of the dog). Apart from the brief summary at the top it will bring up a complete list of a dog's performances. Of course the relevant database has not been around forever but it will be get you back a couple of decades or thereabouts. As a matter of interest, from where are you sourcing your information. If it is the Greyhound-data site then I would not be taking much notice of any given dog's performances as reflected in the site. My impression is that the race performance information is very inadequate.
Also as a matter of interest and apologies in advance if you have already told us in previous posts but do you have a winter recess. It only got to 18 degrees Celcius here yesterday and I felt quite cold. If I had a dog down the backyard then I think I would have at least considered rugging it, especially after the 40 plus degree temps we have had recently. I am thinking it may not have got past 10 degrees there.

thanks for that
as for data no i dont use it for a dogs record it is very very unrelibal
case in point signal power ran 12 times 8 runs from trap 4 the rest from 2 or 3 yet on data she ran from trap 6 a few times her race career is 12 runs 19 wins one 2 and one third

no we dont have an winter break althou this year some tracks could not race due to frozen surfaces in jan (-5)

we would "rug" our dogs for most of the winter and early spring here

We can get a minus 8 here but I am sure that our daytime temperatures are warmer than yours allowing the frost to lift and things to thaw out. We rarely get snow except on the surrounding hills. A minus 8 here is going to be associated with a very heavy frost and almost inevitably a sunny day with a perfectly blue sky. The point is that the racing surface here is never going to be frozen, at least from 12 noon to 12 midnight.

Some nice work fellas, appreciate the input.

Your welcome Bobby.

coops

best bet is to line breed to Osti Lee eg. Greyhound Testmating
or Greyhound Testmating
Just depends if your breeding to sell or breeding to produce the best possible pups based on breeding????

Line breeding to Osti Lee has produced Hallucinate, Where's Pedro, Meticulous, Bucks Double etc

looking at the two just put up

the first one is to close for me i know ye do that but we dont also he ran longer distances than her your mixing mussel twich fibres rarely works

breed like for like so an early paced sire who ran 500-550 yards at most

as for the second i never like a dog with little runs or an injury prone one they can pass it on

Intresting theory Noel and it makes sense. What about the bitches. How do you like them to be?

coops

for a brood her speed is not important
dosent matter if she was open class or not
but........... her siblings must have been and her dam must have thrown open class again not important if the dam was or not but was able to throw them

as for the bitch her self size not important as long as not to big also not from an injury prone line

well made good conformation in her and healthy all her life

i prefre early paced bitches for breeding and then breed to early paced sire out and gone types and i mean real early most of my dams are split record holders before i breed them a good split here is 3.20 open class do 3.10 both bitches i breed end of last year were 2.96/98 splits

Noel, I am not famililar with mussle twitch fibres, any chance of explaining what you mean????

early paced dogs ie sprinters and short distance ones do not take in the any where near the air they need for the first half the race

where as longer distance ones start off (genearlly) slower than the sprinters building up the air as they travel

so the sprinter tpyes dont have the reserve to go longer disatance

its down to the mussel make up while built the same the mussel acts slightly differant in each type

if you take two dogs one sprinter one longer distance type and run them over the sprint the sprinter will win and the other wont even be pantting

now take the same dogs push it to 525 yards the sprinter will be stressed and again the stayer will be fine but if you push the distance out to say 600 yards or more the sprinter will fall back and back while the stayer will get stronger and stronger

hope you see where i am coming from ill try to find an online paper on it tonight for you

thats why we say breed like for like

if you breed early to early you should get early and enough to see out the standard distance

but if you breed early to staying you will 99% of the time get a bad grader with neither

Thats great information Noel.
Question mate, If a dog jumps out of the boxes with the field then has no early pace to keep up with them for the first 100 yards and falls back to the rear of the field then finishes on strongly at the end of 500 yards, does this mean that he can run further?
I have a dog that always does that over 500 yards, and he has won two races coming from behind. I have never tried him at any other distance.

It's probably a stupid qestion, but I've only been training dogs for 7months and need all the help I can get.

coops

coops there is no such thing as a stupid question just stupid answers or people


as for your dog then he has no early just a fast trapper there is a differance

i have a fast trapping early paced dog and i have an early paced dog here very differant some just learn to trap well

in answer to your question it dosent mean if a dog has no early he can stay
but might if i were you i would trial him over the next distance up and again up so on to see where his best distance is

to show you what i mean look at this video and watch trap 5 the early paced sire

and trap three is the stayer better over longer trips

also watch trap one the third type of runner the back straight specilist
Greyhound-Data Video 310,000 2008 paddypower.com Irish Derby Final

hope it works for you

coops i would try longer for him
whats his name breeding so on so i can get a look at his breeding for you

for me (not saying im right ) there are three types of runners

1 the early paced sire(usually better over a short trip)

2 the back paced type the one who breaks ok has ok early but goes into over drive down the back and home over the standerd distance

3 the stayer (usually no early ok on back stright but then bam off he goes)

Noel mate, thats exactley how my dog runs, the same as the one in the video.

His breeding is WINSOME REVENGE out of DONINGHTON REWARD.

By the way, his two sisters won today, On a straight track.One was in short distance 274 metres and the other in along distance 366 metres and both coming from behind. The One that won over the longer race has won over 630 metres.

coops

Bobby Dazzler I'd be looking at either an import or Pure Octane for her. Nice looking bitch by the way.
Regards
Rod

whats his name coops is it a remating as the litter that is listed as running have run quite a bit between them

Noel, his name is SINKA THE DRINKA. By WINSOME REVENGE out of DONINGTON REWARD.

coops

if i have the right dog he has run 23 times all in grade 5

at his age with that amount of races he wont get any better unless he is/was carring an injury

Noel, he has a thyroid problem and has had it for a long time. I only found out 3 weeks ago. He is now on medication for the rest of his life as his thyroid is not working at all.

I got the dog 8 months ago and have 9 starts with him for 3 wins and 2 placings. When I got him he had 14 starts for 4 placings and had a severe hip problem. I found out what was causing the hip problem and I've fix that. The previous owners kept on needling him in the same spot for a long time and he developed a large knot the size of a penny and every time the dog streched out it would tear. I massage it with raw linseed oil for a couple of months and that fixed that problem. He has never been sore in that area again.
I hope that when I can overcome the thyroid problem he will do better.

coops