Most Disappointing Stud Dogs
 

I would prefer that this thread stay clear of current stud dogs as I find that opinions, including my own, on stud dogs are nearly always based on a very few personal experiences and therefore, not necessarily rational. Nevertheless, I thought it would be interesting and a bit of fund to ask greyhound enthusiast members whether there have been any stud dogs with which they have been extremely disappointed. Go back as far as you like, in fact, in some ways the further the better. My number one nomination is The Shoe who was the Harold Park 500 yard record holder in the late 1960s through to the 70s (26.0, unbelievable). He was also the record holder for the 410 yards on the old Richmond straight track. Yes, he was a fast dog and he was also very well bred being by Black Top and out of a bitch, Hiaclass, who I think was well and truly from the same family as the mighty brood bitch, Tamerine. He had plenty going for him but apart from a few good dogs such as Size Seven (NSW St Leger winner and Singleton track record holder), it appeared to me that he produced an inordinate number of awful greyhounds, silly greyhounds, the types who would rather lay in a puddle than on some dry ground, dirty dogs. I think it was Chook who commented about her experience with the Bond breed, "dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty ......". I know nothing of the Bond breed and therefore wish to make it clear that I have no view one way or the other about Bond but I did think of The Shoe when Chook wrote this in her relevant posting. Roman Earl was another dog who was disappointing, huge rapts but did not really deliver in accordance with the number and quality of bitches put to him. His bloodlines were impeccable, none better. Billy Bale was another with whom I was disappointed. Anyway, if any of you want to provide some nominations and some reasons why, it might be a bit of fun.

I got my two Bond pups because of th damline it would not have mattered who the sire was, so I have no favour towards him or not. However these two have wonderful temps, after one hydrobath they now stand there without even a collar, broke to lead in 5min, been in kennels (out of the runs) for a week and don't make a sound, don't mess in kennels or rip up beds!! Now this dosn't mean they will be able to run, but it will be easier to get the best out of them if they are not headcases! Bond also has a top s/rate so it might be a little early to compare him to previous "Ratty" sires.
Imo sires that have been a little disapointing have been Placard, Carlisle Jack,maybe expected a bit more out of Jack Jnr, and Lilly Pilly Lad. But its all about opportunties and throwing good race dogs early so the good breeders keep the bitches keep coming!
My knowledge dosn't go back a long way so some of these sires are stiil going,sorry!

I think we should actually be discussing current sires as it would be a lot more relevant and should be a good debate :)

well ill jump in head first on that one and ye wont like it
but many over here consider brett lee a flop 7500 euro fo rhim here and not enough top class dogs from him top honcho 2500 larkhill jo 2500 maldini 1500 all throwing them litter after litter he had a few very good ones but then a lot of bad ones and small litter as well one and two pups really pissed alot of people of after paying that sort of money

No thats Fair enough! Brett Lee is out of reach for the average aussie breeder anyway so there is not really many of his pups around! I think they export alot of semen so they don't really care anyway!!

same here i couldnt justify using him

but because of his price he got the very best dmas here just didnt do it

He has produced some very smart dogs but so has nearly every other sire, his price is way too high IMO.

another who failed here was come on llyeton nothing of note from here
had a litter to him as well from a good dam produced two track record breakers in her first litter with two other open class his were less than useless
wouldnt run out of sight on a dark night

this is one of the boys i stand i recon this fella might just make it

Noel, I think what you say about Brett Lee is absolutely fair enough, I could not possibly choose him at that sort of money, even one third of that money (completely out of the question) when there are so many other very "good value" sires available, not only in Australia but around the world. All sires are going to have lots of slows ones whether it be for physical or pychological reasons(just plain slow vis-a-vis don't want to go/ have other things on their minds), some ordinary ones and a few fast ones of varying degrees of ability. I am not saying all sires are the same but generally this is how it is. You only have to look through any stud book to come to the realisation of how hard it is to get a good one. There are only so many races to be won and there are an awful lot of pups born. By the way, I loved your Satellite Flight video and will be interested to see how the dog fares in the forthcoming years. Like any stud dog he of course needs to get the quantity and quality of bitches. I hope he and/or your other stud dogs can produce some outstanding litters early on to give him/them the necessary "kickalong".

thanks i think sat is good enough not sure about the others really but he is (in my eyes) the real deal his first to run went open class last week from his first litter

I hope all that you have said about bond is not right (lol) my first dog is out of
bond x fortified belle. and im hoping he is not a nutcase. im only in this for fun at the moment seeing if i like the sport to start buying some decent puppys and rearing them.

ohhh if he isnt a nutcase he isnt a bond, ive got 2 young pups now, the bitch shits and pisses her kennel, rolls in it stands in it, took 4 weeks to get her to empty on a lead and that was by force ( 2 cotton buds up the clacka dipped in soap), walks like a drunken sailor, just a real nightmare..

her brother isnt much better but has relaxed to kennel life a lot better, but i still wouldnt call him a good kennel dog...both are off at breakers at the moment, unless they break in good bye bye wont be coming back to me

great to hear your thought nickg...... lol.... i have my dog on a little speel on the farm for a week or two my young fella is happy to walk on a lead but won't empty anywere but in the kennel.

any way to help them learn to wait till they are outside?

cheers Sean

There may be some nutcases among them, but if you look at the sire prem. then they can also run!!!

try the reward effort, give them a nice pat and a smacko when the empty outside, if your over cleaning the kennels use the cotton buds dipped in liquid soap or a match stick, red side in the clacka, this might not teach them but it will keep your kennel clean.

i have been told a few drops of citronella on the kennel floor, but also was warned if the get it on there bed you will struggle to keep them on there bed

Hi Shaun,
My opinion is that you need to have a routine and stick to it, try not to have sleep ins on the weekend because the dog dosn't care what day it is! You also might want to consider an empty out just before you go to bed, that way they get an extra chance to empty outside! This is all on the assumption that you are exercising/emptying you dogs twice a day already (Morn/afternoon). I base this on the fact that most dogs are fed around the 4-5pm mark and then stay kenneled until say 5-6am so that is over 12hrs in the kennel without being emptied!! I know alot of trainers empty their dogs around 10-11pm, even if you just let rome the backyard for 5 min to empty!
After they get used to the routine, hopefully their manners will improve!!
Cheers

hey Champ thanks for the reply.


I/WE have a dog (teddy bouvier ) and this is what we do with him.

I get out about six or seven in morn wich he is happy with i also let him roam for hours during the day at the moment. feed time is around 5pm and then i let him out for about 20mins at around 10.30 11 o'clock.

My bond dog is on the farm at the moment so im not with him but he is coming home tommorow so i will be trying this with him also and hopefully this works.

Cheers Sean:cool: